Recently, the ancient costume legendary drama "The Legend of the Canghai", directed by Zheng Xiaolong and Cao Yiwen and starring Xiao Zhan, officially ended on CCTV Channel 8. Many famous scenes in the play were talked about by netizens, and imaginative secondary creations frequently emerged.
Xiao Zhan as Cang Hai
Before the interview with director Cao Yiwen, he had just finished the sound mixing and special effects work for the show, and before he had time to review it, he began to accept interviews from various media outlets. He described himself as "a bit confused".
Talking about Zang Hai, the revenge hero who has put himself in the game, Cao Yiwen hopes that "Zang Hai can always grasp himself, remain sincere, and finally jump out of revenge and gain a new life." Speaking of the cooperation with Xiao Zhan, Cao Yiwen said, "I feel his concentration and dedication to this role. I think he really loves Zang Hai."
What interesting things happened during the filming process for this team of perfectionists? How did some of the famous scenes and highlights in the play come into being? What are the ingenious ideas in the design of the shots and the use of music?
The Paper reporter interviewed Cao Yiwen, the director of "The Legend of the Sea", and heard him talk about the story behind this hit drama.
Director Cao Yiwen of "The Legend of the Hidden Sea"
【dialogue】
Xiao Zhan really loves Zang Hai
The Paper : Why did you want to shoot a film on the subject of "The Legend of the Hidden Sea"?
Cao Yiwen : First, after I got the script, I was particularly interested in the content of the first few episodes, because it integrated elements such as feng shui and geomancy into a theme of revenge, which is an interesting thing for me.
Second, it reveals a concern for Chinese traditional culture and folk culture, and is quite mysterious.
At the same time, the revenge plot has a very strong plot tension and the reversal is also very unexpected, which is very attractive to me. So at that time we had expectations for this project and hoped to film it.
The Paper : Can you talk about the growth story of the character Zang Hai?
Cao Yiwen : We hope that Zang Hai is not just a single avenger. We want to focus on not only revenge itself, but also personal growth. Because he is actually an individual caught up in the tide of the times. We also hope that he will always try to grasp himself, maintain his self, and finally jump out of revenge and gain a new life.
In the first two episodes, we used a solid plot to tell the whole process of the extermination of the Kuai family, and the process of learning after he made the choice to avenge his family. I think the premise of revenge is to make everyone understand why this revenge must be taken. I hope that the audience can empathize with Zang Hai and clearly feel the emotions of the characters in the play.
As time goes by, many parts of the play jump out of the simple revenge line and give birth to an expression that we are very interested in: the oppression and destruction of the lower class people under the feudal system. We hope that Zang Hai can enter the capital as a lower person to seek revenge, so that we can see many innocent people like him from his perspective, how they suffer from the power oppression from the upper class, and how they encounter unfair treatment from fate. This is what we hope this play can bring some thoughts to the audience.
It is precisely because of this that Zang Hai can personally experience that the enemies he faces are not just his personal enemies, but also the power and status they represent. The evil thoughts and desires under the feudal system are what he really needs to deal with and fight against.
Through Zang Hai's revenge, we wanted to let him gradually transform from an avenger to a guardian who seeks life for the common people. This is also the arc of his character in the whole play.
The Paper : Can you tell us about your experience working with Xiao Zhan?
Cao Yiwen : After confirming the collaboration, I first learned about some of his past works, including his personal image and performance style.
In terms of appearance and temperament, we think he is very suitable for the role of Cang Hai. Because Cang Hai is very multifaceted, he will express his true feelings and smile very contagiously; he will also inadvertently show his sadness or heavy heart. In the process of getting to know Xiao Zhan, we found that he is indeed very suitable for the character of Cang Hai in all aspects.
Furthermore, after getting to know him, we also felt his concentration and dedication to the role. I think he really loves Zang Hai. He did a lot of preparation for this role and has been trying hard to understand the character's inner thoughts, hoping to interpret the character with richer layers. During the filming, we discussed the character's growth and the complexity and multifaceted interpretation methods every day.
Because the transformation from script to picture is a secondary creation process, we will not be limited to the content provided by the script. For example, when writing the script, we generally do not do too much psychological portrayal or description. This kind of thing depends on the actor's own experience, plus the collision between me and the actor to enrich the character in order to achieve the final presentation effect.
All the emotions and calculations of this character in the end were completed through his performance. Whether it was the emotions he showed, or the emotions he concealed or left blank, the character of Cang Hai was finally fully portrayed.
For example, after Zang Hai learned that his benefactor was the third enemy, he returned home and had a chat with Master Gao Ming. That scene could have easily turned into a confrontation between master and apprentice, because he already knew the truth, and his heart was filled with mixed feelings. He was angry and unwilling that his master had been deceiving him all along, but at the same time he understood that the ten years of feelings could not all be fake. So he had a strong desire - no matter what the result, he hoped that at this moment, his master would be able to confess to him, so that there would be no secrets between them and they could truly open their hearts.
Because on this road of revenge, there are actually few people he can really trust, or entrust his life and his heart to, and Master Gao Ming is one of them. Gao Ming is with him all the way, like a father to him. So at this moment, the look in his eyes expresses a desire. At that time, Zang Hai hid all his emotions, but the desire revealed in his eyes achieved a balance in performance, and he grasped the measure very accurately, which gave us a surprise.
The Paper : He has a crying scene in the study later on, which is also very touching.
Cao Yiwen : Yes, I think Zang Hai still needs to show some emotion at that moment, but his crying scene at that time should be different from his previous heart-wrenching crying scene or very sad crying. Zang Hai has experienced so many things at this time, and he can face these accidents and sorrows calmly. But the blow from his master is really great, so this will be a natural sadness, and he cried very restrainedly in that scene.
Zang Hai could be very sad about the betrayal of his master, he could show great grief, but he could also face it with an indifferent attitude - he may have seen through everything, he doesn't know what true love he can believe in this world. However, I think these two are not the true feelings of Zang Hai at that time.
Xiao Zhan also talked to me before filming that scene. That scene was about Zang Hai walking all the way home after knowing the truth. We also talked about what he was thinking on the way home, and what he went through in his heart when he walked all the way back. So in the end, I think he had thought about everything and figured it out, so he decided to face the master. His final decision was: I hope to open my heart to the master, I hope the master can tell him everything honestly, and he is ready to forgive the master.
This was an emotion that he couldn't let go of, so after he finished talking to his master, the master asked him to go into the room and take a nap. He replied "OK", and his voice started to become hoarse. At that time, his emotions were so painful that he couldn't suppress them. That's why he released his emotions in the study. The two scenes were shot separately at the time, so I edited them together, and the audience would feel that it was very natural.
Screenshot of "Legend of the Hidden Sea"
The Paper : What are your three favorite scenes in this drama?
Cao Yiwen : This is really difficult to arrange. They all took a lot of effort to shoot. Many viewers will say that there are famous scenes. First of all, my feelings are the same as those of the audience. When I read the script, I liked these scenes very much, whether it was the seventh or eighth episode, the scene where Zang Hai came out of the Broken Dragon Stone and confronted the officials; and the scenes where he successfully provoked the relationship between Cao Jingxian and Pingjin Hou; including the emotional scenes later, when he saw the human skins of his parents, etc.
My favorite scene is the one where Zang Hai and Master Gao Ming return to Kuai's house. I edited that scene many times, but the scene where he returns to Kuai's house was something I discussed with the screenwriter and decided to add when we were polishing the script in the later stages.
It was a very important scene. In terms of words, it is a very brief process: Zang Hai returned home and recalled the good old days. Now everything has become a ruin and there is no way to go back to the past. I thought of using the method of time travel to show this scene. Zang Hai will never forget the fire 10 years ago and the tragedy of his family being wiped out. This place is a hurdle that he will never be able to cross in his heart. It is very difficult for him to return to Kuai's house. We can imagine whether Zang Hai has ever thought about going home to visit on the first day after returning to Beijing? I think he must have thought about it, but he didn't dare to go back. He knew that it would take too much courage.
So in the end we used a time-travel editing technique, from the color processing, to return to the original appearance, and then jump to the flashback. We also made a lot of attempts from the perspective of editing and music in that scene, just to amplify the emotions of this seemingly simple scene of Zang Hai returning to Kuai's house.
When we filmed the scene where Zang Hai finally saw himself under the floor tiles, Xiao Zhan discussed with me and we hoped to show the concept of redemption. He actually wanted to get over the hurdle of 10 years old and hoped to let it go, but his obsession and responsibility for revenge, and the pain of being tortured by this hatred in his heart, made him constantly recall his struggle when he was burned by the fire, and he had no way to save himself at that time. Zang Hai at that time was distressing. At that time, we considered using some lines that had appeared before, whether it was the words of his father, mother, sister, and those masters, and stringing them together in a reverberation way. This was also a projection of Zang Hai's heart, and then combined with Xiao Zhan's performance, I was still satisfied with the final result.
The Paper : The accumulation of emotions is indeed quite touching.
Cao Yiwen : Yes, I think filming gave me a lot of imagination and emotions. Here, I would also like to mention Xiao Zhan's pursuit of experience as an actor. Before filming this scene, he specifically told me, "Director, I want to see the scenes we have filmed in Kuai's house when we were young, and the scenes between Xiao Zhinu and his parents." In fact, we also filmed some scenes in Kuai's house, but because of the rhythm, we took it out or put it in the flashback later.
I thought it was a great idea. He wanted to see himself as a child and what it was like to be with his parents. He wanted to experience it not by reading a script, but by watching the real performance, pictures, and sounds, and feel the atmosphere in a three-dimensional way. Then I showed it to him on my phone. After he finished watching it, he said he wanted to cry. I said, let's start when you are ready.
In the filming of the dream scene, he was acting without props and imagining. I told him, you are sitting on the steps, opposite you is your mother smiling at you on the spinning wheel, you look at her, and then she slowly disappears from your fantasy. He gave us the desire in his eyes, the pain of not wanting to lose but not being able to get, and when all the good things are destroyed, it turns into a completely sad expression, followed by tears falling. This scene also came naturally through his emotional performance.
At the same time, his performance can also inspire me to play a supporting role in the sound and picture later, and amplify the emotions of the whole scene. Finally, after he heard all the sounds from the floor tiles, the last sentence was the words of the young slave - if I can't take revenge, I might as well die. Later, when dubbing, I also asked him to dub the same sentence. This sentence is not the line that appeared before the adult Zang Hai. But I think this is a dialogue between the grown-up Zang Hai and the young slave, a dialogue across time and space, and the unity of his belief in revenge. We added seven drums there, which felt a bit like a death knell, and with his movements of standing up, turning his head and raising his eyes, I hope to make the ending of this scene more ceremonial.
Zang Hai looks back at his childhood self
The Paper : You just mentioned the dialogue across time and space. At the end of the play, at the city gate, there is also a similar scene that echoes the beginning and the end.
Cao Yiwen : What we have always wanted to express is the characters’ sense of destiny and the complexity of human nature, and we hope that the audience can feel it in the finished film.
This way of presentation still conforms to the so-called cause and effect reincarnation, and the whole fate returns to the beginning in the end. Everyone follows Zang Hai's perspective into the capital, experiences so many things, and then returns to the beginning when Zang Hai went to the capital for revenge. You will find that everything has changed, but it seems that nothing has changed, and a new reincarnation has occurred. But from Zang Hai's personal perspective, he jumped out of the reincarnation, truly gained a new life, and maintained the truth in his heart. This is what we want to express most-Zang Hai's real victory is that he finally got rid of his obsession with revenge.
The Paper : There is a scene where Zang Hai walks alone in the snow after his showdown with Pingjin Hou. I heard that was also added on the spot?
Cao Yiwen : This scene was in the script, but the snow was a blessing from heaven. The description of the atmosphere and the character's state in the script was relatively open, leaving us room for our own creativity. It happened that it snowed heavily in Hengdian one day, so we arranged a day of location shooting. I said that other scenes could be left alone, but for this scene, as long as time allowed, I wanted it to be shot in the snow.
Because snow, like rain, has many layers of meaning that can be interpreted. For example, snow can be compared to redress of injustice, that is, revenge. It can echo each other. At the same time, it is a manifestation of the heavy air. When the snowflakes fell on Zang Hai's shoulders, it was like a heavy burden, echoing the complexity of his heart at that time.
Although he had just revealed his identity to his enemy, and he had his own schemes and calculations, at that moment, he was finally able to let his enemy die with a clear conscience, and finally vented his anger for his family. But at the same time, Pingjin Hou said to him, seeing your current state, should your father cry or laugh? This made Zang Hai's emotions at that moment extremely complicated.
This plot is placed in the entire story line. It is indeed not a staged ending, but we hope that Zang Hai can get an emotional release at this moment, so the atmosphere must be sufficient. But we have to be restrained in the performance and the arrangement of music. For example, when Zang Hai bends down, our camera is still far away. I can also zoom in and take a close-up of him crying at that time to show how painful his facial expression is. But I think Zang Hai was too miserable at that time, so I didn’t want the audience to get close to him. I hope no one will get close to him, and everyone should just look at him from a distance.
In terms of music, our choice for that scene was not a true feeling of victory. If I played the theme song "It's Me" (sung by Sun Nan), the mood would be a bit too high, which might not be the style I wanted to pursue. Later, I discussed with the music director, Mr. Hu Xiaoou, and decided to play a more sad music here, using instruments with a strong sense of loneliness to present the delicate complexity of his heart.
Stills from The Legend of the Hidden Sea
Both a character in the play and a game within the game
The Paper : Speaking of music, Eunuch Cao’s drumming and the Kunqu opera are also a presentation of traditional Chinese culture. How did you come up with the idea of doing it this way?
Cao Yiwen : I was first surprised by the choice of actors, because I found that Mr. Xing Minshan had a background in Kunqu opera, and he had performed opera in a suspense drama before. When we first started to design the biography and characters of each character, we hoped that in addition to showing his actions and his main plot in the plot, we could also enrich this character from his life, so as to create an organic combination with his character image and his character background. For Eunuch Cao, we still hope that he has his own personal preferences besides doing bad things, so it is natural to add opera elements.
The first day we met with Xing Minshan, we talked about this with him and found that he also came with this idea, so we hit it off. Then we started to pick out all of Cao Jingxian's scenes to see which ones were suitable for adding Kunqu elements to enhance the atmosphere of the scene and even give it a different temperament.
Cao Gonggong plays the drums
Speaking of "Long Sword and Big Bow", the singing segment of "The Story of Washing Silk: Hunting", we looked at the effects of episodes 27 and 28 as a whole. The script describes this episode and a half as the longest night in Dayong. Many things happened on this night: Cao Jingxian fanned the flames, and he carefully planned to let Pingjinhou step into his trap; Pingjinhou's dying struggle; and Zanghai wanted to ensure that the result was what he wanted after he laid out the plan at the beginning; and Zhuang Zhixing also played an unexpected and irreplaceable role in this game. All of these need to be strung together by editing, and there must be a piece of music that connects all the things that happened together and can reflect the theme of harmony and unity.
I suggested to Mr. Xing Minshan that Kunqu Opera might be more suitable for this. In fact, I had thought of another Kunqu Opera at that time, which has a tiger in the lyrics. Isn't this the Marquis of Pingjin? But he said there was a better one - he played "The Hunting" to me. I felt the majestic momentum after listening to it, and its drum beats and the performance of its instruments can be perfectly combined with the sound of the war in our episode. So I immediately decided to use this Kunqu Opera, and finally matched the picture and music together during editing.
Later, this Kunqu opera was mainly used in the prison break, when Zhuang Zhixing was led out of the mansion, and he and Lu Yan chased each other, until finally Pingjinhou forced the emperor to the palace. It not only serves as a battlefield soundtrack, but also allows the singing and drums of this opera to shuttle between the battles of war. For me, the feeling after the first completion was quite dreamy, but the murderous intent was strong, and I was very satisfied with the result. From the perspective of audio-visual elements, it makes everyone feel very passionate and tense. It forms a kind of fateful tug and confrontation between the layout of Canghai, Cao Jingxian's viciousness and fueling, and Zhuang Luyin's dying struggle.
The Paper : You just mentioned that the tiger represents Pingjin Hou. In the play, there is a shadow play that uses the tiger, centipede and eagle to represent the three enemies of Canghai. How did you conceive of this scene?
Cao Yiwen : I have been thinking about how to create some more spectacular elements for everyone.
Art director Liu Chengyi and I started to discuss the design style with the Pillow Tower as the first scene. One of the major elements is shadow play. We wanted to enlarge its size while maintaining its traditional performance form and shape, presenting a scene of ancient people watching a giant screen. This was done based on the productivity and manpower available at the time. At the same time, shadow play itself is a very distinctive element of Chinese traditional culture, because it is the art of light and shadow, and it is accompanied by the music and singing of real people.
We think that this element has a dreamy feel when placed in the system of "Legend of the Canghai", just like everyone is controlled like the characters in the shadow play, some are under the light, some are in the shadow, which fits well with the style of our story. The concept presentation of our first version of the poster also follows this style - Canghai enters the game himself, and he is also a part of the movie. He is not only a person in the play, but also a game within the game, so there must be a lot of confusing things.
Poster of "Legend of the Hidden Sea"
Back to this scene, originally it was decided that there would be many wood carvings in front of Zang Hai; later I said that the image of animals might be more metaphorical and freehand, and also more intuitive for the audience. For example, the tiger has its domineering and ferocious nature, but also its cautious nature. In order to ambush its prey, it has the kind of patience to wait. At that time, we compared each character one by one. When we were styling the character of Pingjin Hou, we made the thorns on his temples look like they were sticking out. On the one hand, this is in line with his identity as a military general, and on the other hand, I think this is really a strengthening of the tiger image.
Huang Jue as Marquis of Pingjin
Then Eunuch Cao is a rather sinister guy, and his moves are all quite poisonous. In the end, he was chosen as centipede, which has a literal similarity with “gong”. Later, many netizens used the “gong” in centipede when commenting on Eunuch Cao in the barrage, completely combining this image with the character.
As for the third person, we thought of him as a hidden creature. We kept talking to the screenwriter about it, such as a bat or an octopus. It might have many tentacles and hide in the dark. Later, we decided to go with a creature that the ancients could more easily associate with, so we used an eagle.
After choosing these three animals, we initially thought about making this part more inner and more flying, and also considered shooting with a green screen, but due to some realistic objective factors of shooting, we had to shoot it in a way that combined with the real scene. When scouting the location, we saw the screen on display in the study of the Tibetan mansion, so we decided to use the screen as a projection, and use the windows in the courtyard outside as screens, and present it in this way of shadow, referring to the style of shadow play. I think the final effect is okay, and it can also stimulate some creativity and imagination within limited conditions.
It is also possible to make "Legend of the Hidden Sea" into a comedy
The Paper : Have you seen the secondary creations made by netizens for “The Legend of the Lost Tomb”?
Cao Yiwen : Yes. The actors sent me the videos, the staff also sent them to me, and then I watched them online. Netizens were very attentive. For example, they used shadow puppetry to help us string together the plot, which was just a scene. Some people also made a three-dimensional book for us. I was very moved. Everyone was very attentive in creating secondary creations. I also saw a funny video made by AI. Cao Gonggong and his friends sang karaoke, and the villains and the protagonists all listened together and danced when they disagreed. There was another funny one, that is, Zang Hai took out a machine gun and killed all the enemies directly. The whole play ended, and then he said, "My lord, times have changed." It was very creative.
We provided everyone with a main plot, and then everyone branched out, which was quite unexpected and pleasantly surprising to me. This is a reflection of the level of attention, so I would like to thank everyone very much, and this is a manifestation of their love for our drama.
The Paper : Do you have any regrets during the filming of "The Legend of the Hidden Sea"?
Cao Yiwen : Of course there are. We actually have some regrets, which is common in any film or television work. If we say which scene could have been shot better afterwards, it feels a bit like hindsight. Many things are some sudden inspirations that come to you during the filming, and some things are the result of the collective efforts of the staff and actors on the scene.
I believe that if we are given more time and more conditions, we can definitely do better. To give a simple example, we have a lot of story content, and we can still diverge and derive more content. Because this script really provides a foundation for divergence. There are many character lines that can be expanded and written. However, based on objective factors in reality, we can only do the existing volume. There is no more space for these characters or these branches. We can only see if there is an opportunity in the future.
Now everyone is also saying that "Legend of the Lost Tomb" may have a second season. From the perspective of our creators, the first thing I want to ensure is that this complete story of revenge and growth is told to the end, and not to imagine the future before this story is finished. Only when the first step is done well, there will be other possibilities in the future.
Director Zheng Xiaolong (right) and Cao Yiwen at the filming site
The Paper : There are many calls online for a second collaboration of the combination of "Zheng Xiaolong + Cao Yiwen + Xiao Zhan". If there is a chance for a second collaboration, what type of subject matter would you like to try?
Cao Yiwen : As long as the three of us like it very much, it’s fine. It depends on the project. As long as the project has a good story, has the content we want to express, and has points that interest us, whether it is a modern theme or a costume theme, we are not opposed to it.
Of course, I am also very interested in suspense themes, but in the end it still depends on whether there is a good story to carry these ideas.
