Ren Baoru and Gao Xuan are good sisters in the same dormitory at the Film Academy. Before and after graduation, the teacher gave a chance to write a script. The two of them pulled each other and went there. After that, they have been together for 26 years. .

Since 2017, there have been endless reports of domestic and foreign female sexual assault cases and women's equal rights incidents. It is a writing habit for screenwriters to observe life and society, and it is also an event related to women. The two screenwriters are naturally concerned. Ren Baoru and Gao Xuan started discussing after reading a lot of news. Will you tell the truth later?"

"At that time, we all thought it was because women were trapped in sexual stigma." Ren Baoru said, "But one day, Gao Xuan sent me an article, and there was a sentence in it that enlightened us. It said, 'Sexual assault in the workplace The essence of sexual assault is not sex, but power, it is the unequal power'." Afterwards, the two screenwriters began to think about how the mentality of the victims in the sexual assault incident is in a thousand twists and turns, and what kind of Want to resist, but dare not resist.

"Why is it that for a long time, a woman has matured physically and mentally, and she can view sex correctly, but she still cannot face the harm she has suffered? In fact, it is because of the unequal power, and the weak are crushed It feels more humiliating and painful, even if you become stronger one day, it will be difficult for you to be consistent." Gao Xuan said.

Ren Baoru feels more and more that it is necessary to present the changes in the mentality of the victims in the sexual assault cases that occurred in the vague area. "Why is the victim afraid of power? What are the positive benefits that power can bring her? Once you defy power, what do you lose?" The Imperfect Victim' has a cognition, the rationality of cognition of the existence of the 'imperfect'." This is where the TV series "Imperfect Victim" came into being.

The Imperfect Victim poster

"Imperfect Victim" tells about a sexual assault in a vague area, a perpetrator who is not ferocious or even charming, and a victim who is not pure and even full of flaws, from various perspectives and narratives , unfolding the folds and dark sides of characters and events little by little. While the story has depth, it questions social phenomena and problems, without concealing the author's sharpness in expression. In the current TV drama market, it is a rare and courageous work. The two screenwriters said that from the outline stage, the platform has already entered, but there was no external interference during the entire creation stage, and the expressions of the two screenwriters were fully protected and respected.

The Paper interviewed the two screenwriters, and talked about the creation story of this work, as well as the two screenwriters' thinking and experience on the situation of women in their own growth.

【dialogue】

Zhao Xun and Lin Kan

The Paper : At present, the audience has a big controversy about the plot: Has Zhao Xun benefited from the relationship with Cheng Cheng? Once she has benefited, has it changed the nature of the incident? Did you two expect this controversy?

Gao Xuan : We have completely predicted all the current controversies on social media, including the 880,000 credit cards and gifts received by Zhao Xun. We can only say that the gift was given forcibly and wrapped in a gentle face, but it was actually a means to successfully hunt Zhao Xun. On the grounds of social needs, the senior assistant is equipped with a black card with a limit of 500,000, and Zhao Xun is asked to accompany him to do some payment work when participating in social occasions. Of course, Zhao Xun was told that he has the right to use this card to buy something for himself, but we can see from the first scene that Zhao Xun usually wears a shirt, jeans and canvas bag. When she escaped, she also took it off and gave it to her Big-name clothing purchased.

During the filming, the director requested that the "880,000" related props must be in an unopened state, because everyone knows that as long as these gifts have been opened, it will immediately cause the audience to change the moral judgment of Zhao Xun, so we In order for the audience to accurately capture whether Zhao Xun accepted the benefits, we carried out precise execution in shooting and prop preparation.

Lin Yun as Zhao Xun

The Paper : In addition, there is also a big controversy about the character of Lin Kan: as a successful lawyer, she sent Zhao Xun to report the case. Would you like to chat with the two about the creation of this character?

Gao Xuan : The most important thing in our play is to establish two layers of logic, judicial and emotional. All Lin Kan's previous actions were based on judicial logic and professional ethics. As an agent in the early stage, she represented him to communicate and solve problems with Zhao Xun under the instruction and authorization of the success. At this time, they were not in an opposing position. In the process, she saw another truth besides legal facts, but this truth is meaningless to conviction, because conviction only looks at evidence and objective facts.

And the relationship between her and Zhao Xun is dynamic. When she established empathy and understanding for Zhao Xun, she sent Zhao Xun to call the police. Note that she did not "encourage" her to call the police. This behavior follows Lin Kan's emotional logic. above is totally fine. When Zhao Xun went to the police station, Lin Kan was still only an agent, performing the duties of an agent; when the police came to issue a successful arrest certificate, her identity was officially transformed into a defense lawyer, which is strictly regulated by law.

And then, even though the two women are in judicially opposing positions, the emotion continues to advance. Lin Kan embodies two kinds of logic, one is professional ethics, and the other is emotional logic. As the incident progresses, her professional ethics and inner emotions become more and more torn apart, becoming more and more unbearable. When she finally succeeds, she will be strangled. Zhao Xunshi, she had to make an either-or choice.

"Imperfect Victim" Stills

Why is it so difficult to even admit being "victimized"?

The Paper : Zhao Xun's denial of being sexually assaulted in the early stage, except that she has not cleared her mind, apart from the fear of power, does she have a feeling of unwillingness to admit that she has been sexually assaulted?

Gao Xuan : Yes. One is that she hasn't clarified her self-cognition, and she doesn't want to put herself in the victim's position, which makes her ashamed. The second is that she is actually covering up the flaws of her humanity, because she can't face her own choices and hesitation 100%, so she immediately wanted to cover up the shameful brand of being violated. Her later lying was also to cover up her inner mischievousness that she could not explain clearly in the past three months, but later this process was revealed to the public, and she paid a terrible price for these three months of hesitation. Only then did I fully understand what I really wanted and didn't want in my heart, and only then did I complete the final growth.

Although she has selfish desires, she is not only looking for profit. After this incident, she is standing at a crossroads. If she goes to one side, she will become Li Yi, and if she goes to the other side, she will become Lin Kan. In the process of selection, there is cowardice, fear of calculation, but also resistance and courage.

We also presented the content of her being humiliated by a slut. You can think about it, whether the hurt she suffered and the degree of humiliation she suffered were equal to her own flaws? Did she get what she deserved? Of course, you can continue to judge her, or you can choose to empathize with her, it's okay, it's the audience's choice.

The Paper : Why is it so difficult for a woman to admit that she is a victim? As if some kind of "not wanting to be weak" dignity is involved?

Gao Xuan : I think "Mu Qiang" and "Fear of the Weak" are two sides of the same coin. Everyone has the instinct of being "obsessed with power". We worship power. As long as power does not harm us, we hope to gain some light from power. Isn't it just wanting to hold the thigh of power by looking for the back door through relationships in society? ? When Zhao Xun exposed her "fear of the weak", she also exposed her "Mu Qiang", didn't she? If she admits that she is a victim, she will have to face her "Mu Qiang" side in the past three months. If she didn't have Mu Qiang's side, she might have refused to succeed at the beginning.

The Paper : So she does have a desire to gain fame, she is "walking a tightrope", but she doesn't really want to fall into the abyss.

Gao Xuan : Yes, that’s why some people say that she stands up and down again, or “sugar-coated cannonballs are beaten back”, which is also true. There is a process for her self-identification. I think there is one thing in it that I can understand. I saw a shortcut when I was in my twenties. Although I insisted on using my strength to achieve my career and never attached to anyone, In my twenties, a young woman in Beijing who has no home, no career, and no money can suddenly get a stable residence or a job by shortcut, so should I? In the end, although I didn't take a shortcut, I still feel ashamed when I think back to the wavering in my heart at that time.

The Paper : Can't face the self who once wanted to materialize himself to replace some resources?

Gao Xuan : Yes, that "self" existed in Lin Kan's past and also in Zhao Xun's present. So Lin Kan later said that the most unbearable thing she could bear was self-loathing. When she was not strong, she once weighed the loathing—should I trade myself for something?

The Paper : But we are no strangers to the narrative of men exchanging dignity for profit in film and television dramas and history books. How can women be ashamed and self-loathing for even thinking about it?

Ren Baoru : Of course, if you think about the character Julien in "The Red and the Black", if you evaluate him as an ambitious man, what would your evaluation be if he were a woman? The social judgments on men and women are absolutely different, so we tore apart a character like Zhao Xun and put it in front of everyone, so that everyone can evaluate her and judge her. Why? I hope that everyone will think about it after watching it. When a person has big holes, small eyes, and flaws like a sieve, does she have the right to resist? We think she still has the right to resist, because no matter how wrong she is, she is still a victim, and we should put questioning the perpetrator first.

Liu Yijun as Success

Is there a moral threshold for our kindness and help?

The Paper : The character Zhao Xun has a very complicated face, so it is normal to cause controversy, but among all the controversies, one argument that makes me feel that I need to be alert is to expel her from the female team, "She does not resist now, Nullify other women's struggles"?

Gao Xuan : Everyone has cowardice and greed in their bones. Can you be completely unwavering in the face of the benefits given to you by high-ranking people? When the conditions and weights that tempt you are strong enough, can you be strong without desire? When a representative of authority seduces and pressures in a gentle way, can you clearly refuse and immediately cut off the seats? Of course there are a lot of women with high morals and I applaud those women. But we want to provide a model that is not perfect to the extreme, to open up all the folds of a woman's greed and cowardice, and let others discuss and criticize her.

If such victims can also gain understanding, without empathy, just understanding, it will help more women not to face the harsh public opinion environment due to the moral flaws they have committed when they are violated rather than testify. And in fact, the society is more tolerant and understanding. When they say "no", they will hesitate less time. This is the meaning of our writing this drama.

The Paper : So, should our goodwill and help have a moral threshold?

Gao Xuan : Under the threshold of morality, even if she is truly a victim, she will be punished, but we do not want to set such a double standard for victims. I was thinking, everyone analyzes the victim inch by inch, why no one analyzes the perpetrator, why no one draws a boundary for the perpetrator? We look at why the victim is victimized, and why the perpetrator is not accountable?

Let's not talk about the law for a moment, but judge by public order and good customs. Morally, would Zhao Xun be more shameless than success? Do you know what to do and what not to do to be successful? A married man who uses his power to "view women" countless times, why doesn't he discuss his morality? Success keeps saying that he has not committed a crime. If you don’t discuss a person in power, what to do and what not to do, and where the boundaries are, then we want to dismantle the boundaries for imperfect victims. Why should we draw them? Give success first.

"Imperfect Victim" Stills

Ren Baoru : In the first scene, Zhao Xun came out of the drinking scene, and Zhao Xun was obviously drunk. Although she said that I was not drunk, everyone present knew it well. Why don't you discuss: Why don't you send people home after your success, but take them there with you? Do you think this is normal? Including in reality, when men cheat, we see more attacks on "little threes".

The complexity of a character like Zhao Xun can only be truly understood when everyone is at peace. She was suddenly and irregularly transferred from Guan Peisheng to the position of senior assistant to the chairman. She knew it was abnormal, but was this position tempting? Temptation, how could you refuse in the first place? Am I going to resign? Or am I refusing to transfer? Neither was an easy decision. Now that she is in this position, the chairman did not directly hurt her, and the gift also said "Because you want to work with me, you must be presentable", "These things reflect my face", how do you refuse? It's also complicated. In such a complicated situation, in the end someone can simply and rudely say that she is a "prostitute who has accepted 880,000 people". I can only say that this kind of evaluation is a kind of language tyranny.

The women behind the perpetrators

Dong Jie as Li Yi

The Paper : Li Yi is also very interesting. As a successful lover, she mercilessly belittles and humiliates Zhao Xun?

Gao Xuan : Li Yi's trajectory into this company is exactly the same as that of Zhao Xun. She is young and beautiful, and has entered the range of success. You can understand her as: she was in Zhao Xun's situation many years ago. The difference is that when she was victimized by this kind of temptation, she quickly identified what she wanted and what she didn't want. She chose to cling to and accept everything that success gave her, and for the sake of self-consistency, she put her own Emotions are also mobilized, and she doesn't distinguish, and doesn't bother to distinguish whether she loves a successful person or his power and status. In short, this person as a whole fascinates her.

So we also had a question, after being driven home by Xin Lu successfully, losing all aura and ruining his reputation, will Li Yi still be the same as before? I think it will change, at least she won't do everything for him as before. We think this is Li Yi, she must be obsessed with power itself.

The Paper : So, the concealment and frightening aspect of successful sexual assault lies in: Do victims think it is a kind of assault?

Gao Xuan : Yes. But just because Li Yi chooses to accept, the nature of his infringement cannot be changed. Whether it is Li Yi or Zhao Xun, success is the perpetrator. But what is really difficult is that only the victim's subjective feelings can investigate whether he has committed a crime. This is the way of successful infringement, soft, affectionate, and make you feel "for your own good", pretending that you should still be grateful to him, but in fact his behavior is to use money and power to abuse young people Predation of female sexual resources. He is as gentle as water when he is in the spring breeze, but we will also let everyone see that when he abuses his power, his arrogance crushes, unreasonable and arrogant, and overrides everyone. We only wrote about Li Yi, but we said it from the mouths of other employees. There are many high-level women like him around him. Who gave him such rights?

Chen Shu as Xin Lu

The Paper : Then the wives of Xin Lu and Lin Kan's mentors are the wives behind the offenders. What is their greatest value and role in this story?

Gao Xuan : Xin Lu and Chenggong are evenly matched. When she was disappointed in her marriage and her husband, what she did was not to crusade, but to take back what belonged to her, and stay where you are cool. This is not only mentally independent, but also completely independent emotionally, so the affiliation between the two of them changed later. We want to use such a role to say that if a woman cannot realize her emotional ideals in marriage, it doesn't matter, as long as you are complete and don't lose yourself.

Another wife, the teacher's wife, asked Lin Kan a few words, "Do you love him? Do you hate him?" She expected to hear an affirmative answer, because in this way she is the winner, and she "owns" this man. And other women failed to "take it away". In fact, she is particularly obsessed with her husband's power. Even if this power includes predatory resources, she can accept it. As long as "you all love him, and you seduce him actively, he can be forgiven."

But once it is said that her husband is the perpetrator and he is rejected by others, this hurts her obsessed male image and hurts her self-esteem. Her personal dignity is directly equated with her husband's male power. She fully maintains her husband's decency and dignity, and can act as a fighter to "strangle" the same sex to maintain her husband's power and decency. This decency and dignity is How delusional. There are many such women in life, so we put this observation on her.

"Social Insight Drama"

The Paper : The character design of Chenggong is very interesting. It is difficult for me to see a sexual predator. Many comments on the Internet are "distressed for success", "attractive", and "normal man".

Gao Xuan : Let me tell you, if there are such remarks on the Internet, I will really regret it. Why don't we simply and one-sidedly write this perpetrator as a ferocious and evil image. But it is true that in life we see many people in high positions of power with such a decent appearance, what we want to say is: Even if he packs it like this, this kind of behavior is still a violation; even if this kind of behavior is acceptable to 99 girls, Having a girl say "I don't want to" is still aggression.

Ren Baoru : The society seems to agree that it is normal for men to want to occupy a lot of resources of the opposite sex. It is even more normal if they are a person with power. This rule is the default. So you see what can be done, when the show airs, it really reflects the reality.

The Paper : There are two difficulties in the creation of this drama. One is the use of a large amount of legal knowledge and cases of sexual assault crimes; the other is ambiguity. Whether it is the ambiguity of the characters or the ambiguity of the case, the entire creation process will be brought about. difficulty. Want to hear the two chat?

Ren Baoru : The legal aspect must be a huge difficulty. If the legal part isn't solid, the story doesn't hold water. From the very beginning of building the story, we communicated with two legal consultants before writing the pen. They will help us deduce the legal principles of the key plots, and give us suggestions if some directions do not work. We have also observed and learned about a large number of similar cases at home and abroad, and it is reasonable to find people from them. It can be said that our reserve is as long as two years before we officially write.

Speaking of ambiguity, why the promotional team of this drama positioned itself as a "social insight drama" is actually because a lot of sexual assaults by acquaintances and workplaces are in the vague area, and the complexity of human nature is also hidden in it. It is true that I want to write this clearly. is difficult. Why can we write 29 episodes of a case, because what we write is not just the case, but the before and after the case, everyone in the case, their human nature is complex, only in this way can we write clearly the ambiguity. When writing out the ambiguity of a character, we are not providing the audience with a judgment: good or bad, right or wrong. We're just trying to say: You see, everyone has complexities and ambiguities in life. Judgment is, of course, the viewer's right.

Gao Xuan : In addition, Zhao Xun itself is a process of identifying himself from vague cognition to gradual clarity. Lin Kan actually had this process when he was young. The judicial definition of this case in the play is clear, and the legal definition is close to the objective truth, but it is not what we mainly want to express. Spread out all the fuzz. And several women in the play, such as Zhao Xun, Lin Kan, Mi Mang, etc., have a common mental trajectory.

The Paper : Women have to go a long way. Through long self-domestication, self-persuasion, and self-struggle, they may be able to face and accept all of themselves.

Gao Xuan : This is why the two of us wrote this topic, because we know what kind of road we have traveled, and when we talk about this topic, we empathize with it. Of course, female creators don't need to highlight the label of women, and they don't need to be limited to any genre at all. It's just that in "Imperfect Victim", it is our responsibility, obligation and mission to output observation perspectives and values from a female perspective.